More in Love with Jesus: Interview with Rolland Baker
PneumaReview.com speaks with Rolland Baker about Iris Global and his new book, Keeping the Fire.
PneumaReview.com: Many people know about the work that you and Heidi are doing in Mozambique but Iris Global has leaders in over 30 nations. What are some of the other nations that Iris works in?
PneumaReview.com: In your new book, Keeping the Fire, you write about the five core values of Iris Global, please tell our readers what they are.
Baker: Our first core value is that we believe there is no limit to the extent of which we can know God and experience him. Jesus is not just the destination to some place, he is the destination. All the mysteries of life are hidden in him for us to discover as we seek Him with all our heart, mind, and soul. Not only can we find God, but also we depend on Him completely. This is our second core value. We do not put confidence in the flesh – either in people or plans. Our confidence is in Jesus, and all fruitfulness flows from intimacy with him. Our third core value is to look for revival and begin ministries, not always but as a general rule, at the bottom and not the top. This means going to the least, to the poor and the unwanted. It means going to the people most Churches don’t want to have anything to do with; the people others have given up on and thrown away. We go to the most hurting, the most broken, and the forgotten of the world as vessels of the kind of love the world has never seen. This leads to our fourth value, the willingness to suffer, if necessary, for the sake of the Gospel. The Bible tells us that we will share Jesus’ glory to the extent and in the proportion we share his suffering. Some people might teach that he suffered so that we won’t have to. But we in Iris don’t feel that way. We feel that he suffered so that he could save us from our sins and give us a heart like he has so that we can live the way He lived among evil opposition. We are not about to tell people that if you get into tough stuff that you’re doing something wrong. In fact, in this world we are told we will face evil opposition, but we also realize that trials and tribulations produce a character in us that proves to the glory of God. It was for the joy set before him that Jesus endured the cross. Therefore, our last value is deeply important, and that is the joy of the Lord. In His Presence is fullness of joy, and with Paul we testify that in all our troubles our joy knows no bounds. It is our strength and energy, without which we die. People tell me all the time places of persecution and difficulty are not places to experience joy. We are told that we need to get serious and focus on problems. But, it was the persecuted Christians in China that taught me that joy is the energy of the Holy Spirit. It’s the joy given by the Holy Spirit that kept Christians from losing hope in prison, solitary confinement, and torture in China. If they needed it, and if Jesus needed it to go through the Cross, then we must need it too! It’s for the joy set before us that we are willing to do the stuff. Without joy, life is meaningless. Love without joy is a killer. The perfection of Heaven, and of the gospel is that perfect love which results in joy and that’s the whole outcome of everything!
PneumaReview.com: With reference to these values you have said, “Our values are not the outcome of research; they are the offspring of romance.” Please explain what you mean by this statement.
Baker: The mystery of ministry is a contagious, imparted love born of God and in total freedom that makes all the difference. “Do not awaken or arouse love until it so desires,” says the Song of Songs. We fall in love with God as we fall under the Spirit’s control. No one is blessed when their lover is straining to love them. God is not blessed by our strain. Nor does God feel loved if we do not enjoy Him, constantly and to overflowing. Our confidence in Him is reflected in our joy. We choose friends who enjoy us, and in whose company we find joy. In all of ministry we are to be the friend of God, making Him feel loved and thrilled to have made us. In return we are filled and thrilled. Our goal is not just to receive the love of God, but also to be in love with Him.
PneumaReview.com: The church has sometimes disagreed about what the gospel message is. In your book you said that Jesus proclaimed a saving gospel, a social gospel, and a supernatural gospel. What does this mean for the ministry of the church today?
Baker: The church should be proclaiming a perfect Savior who saves to the uttermost and delivers us from all the effects of sin. Our great enemies are sin and death, not just poverty or lack of education. Of course, in the love of God we want to alleviate as much as possible the horrors of poverty, disease, and ignorance. We must address suffering right down to the most immediate point of need, even a drink of water. But ultimately the human heart cries for the security, peace, love and joy that are contained in a perfect love affair with Jesus. Jesus must become the point of life, our destination, the content of the ministry of the church. In such a love affair, everything is supernatural and normal! The issues of life are found in the human heart, the very throne of God, and when God moves in, heaven begins! In this life we must still resist evil opposition, but Jesus Himself sustains us with massive down payments on our eternal love affair with Him!
PneumaReview.com: Is there a particular group of people that you hope will benefit from reading Keeping the Fire?
Baker: Yes, anyone who is hungry for Jesus Himself and will not settle for anything less than the plain Gospel, pure and simple. That could include a whole spectrum of people from the most uneducated spiritual initiates to the most complex scholars and theologians. I tried to make this book as simple, direct and to-the-point as possible.
PneumaReview.com: What lasting impact would you like to see your book have on the church?
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Read the 2012 PneumaReview.com interview with Heidi Baker: “Missions and Miracles: Interview with Heidi Baker“
